I have heard different possible origins for the super reds. One was that they appeared in a spawn from 2 normal browns, and the other that they were derived from calico. I don't know which is true.

There is a photo of a super red variant on PC in their Cat-E-Log section (A. cf cirrhosus) and that photo shows a fish that is red with some dark pigmentation like a young or very lightly marked calico. If that photo is correctly labeled it suggests the calico theory of origin.

All the other photos of super reds that I have seen show clear red fish without a smattering of dark pigment, though it would be natural to photograph the fish that are closest to the ideal.......

I have heard that super red usually breeds true, though on occasion they will throw out brown. I don't know if this means normal brown fry that are clearly browns from the beginning or something like a heavily marked calico. I figure a calico with a lot of dark pigment could be mistaken for a normal brown in the same way the L-144 is sometimes lumped with and sold as albino. You have to look closely and know what to look for sometimes to differentiate some of the colors.

The actual genetics would make a difference if you plan to out cross to another color for improvement or genetic diversity. If super red is the result of a single gene an out cross should work just fine, on the other had if it is the result of the interaction of multiple genes, which seems more likely IF the calico theory is true, then you could have a difficult time regaining and maintaining the clear red color after and out cross.

Speaking as someone who has successfully bred various breeds of livestock for show and utility for over 40 years, inbreeding is not in and of itself a bad thing. Almost all successful livestock breeders utilize line breeding which is just a modified form of inbreeding. What inbreeding does do is increase the likelihood that recessive traits will be bought out. Some recessives we value, like those for an unusual color, some are not so obvious and may affect structure, metabolism or internal organs in a negative way. Inbreeding can not bring out what isn't already there, it just increases the chance that those recessives will be expressed.

I am not advocating inbreeding, as it would never be my first choice if other options were available, just trying to put it in a balanced light as the term carries a lot of prejudice.

interesting point you have there..also a good thoery.......

It would be great to know the correct answer to this very intrested to know... i like the Super reds and im currently trying to get hold of some to have a go at breeding

Well I did a lot of searching on the topic super reds and found more photos. Several of the pictured fish did indeed have some minimal dark pigment, most commonly in or near the tails, and on the leading edge of the pectoral fin. Also the photos I thought were clear red fish often did not show the entire fish, so they may not have been as clear as I had assumed.

I still don't know anything for a fact, because the number of times something is repeated doesn't make it true, but most of the explanations for their origin was that they were derived from calico.

I would love to hear of actual breeding results from those of you that are fortunate enough to have super reds. Did they throw browns and if so, were they normal browns or dark calico or something else?

Does anyone have any idea what I could expect to pay for unsexed 2" super reds please ?

Steve

i would say good money u pay anything from a tenner for 2 to 3cm ones and their not the fastist growing ancistrus and not often seen for sale at this price ive seen them advertised at £40 each dippends on how much people are willing to pay. ive just been offered £200 for six at 31/2 inch and turnd it down keep your eye on ebay theirs going to be 4 on their soon

Thanks Deano

I will keep my eye on Ebay.

Regards Steve

when are theses going to be put on ebay and size and so on ?
i think the best way to get some of these would to be a few of us who are very interested get some from a supplier , i know that a place called rare aquatics will be able to get some but i can imagine the price will be through the roof in profit for them selves.

were as if a good group of us placed an order we could get alot more fish for our money but i wouldn't know how to go about this

hiya when rare aquatics had some reds in the were priced at £40 each i think the size was 2cm -3cm in size colin.

that is an insanely high price for them at that size , what a total rip of merchant , and for a fact they will have been brought in less than a tenner .

what do others think ? over priced or what ?

you will be suprised what some people are will to pay for them i had six originally i ended up with 2 males and 4 females so i keeped a sexed trio and passed a trio on colin.

have you had any success with them at al colin any breeding i am really wanting to get some any ideas ? i had some of biker man but they got white spot which was highly odd as i keep nearly every bristenose and never come across this problem once , it wasnt over stocked the water is kept to very accurate parameters . who knows but i was very disappointed none the less

hiya i have had no luck so far with breeding them the male needs a few more bristles and hasnt taken to a cave yet , i did hear that most people that have had them lost them to white spot. thats why they arnt seen for sale colin.

[img][/img] heres some pictures of mine colin

hi colin so people that have got them off steve have had white spot of them do you know and do u have any ideas were i can get some at all , and i cant see you picture colin , dont know if you upoaded it ?