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 Common BN genetics

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Amber
Juvenile Bristlenose
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PostSubject: Common BN genetics   Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:43 am

Hi everyone,

Bristlenose genetics are a mess, nevertheless, I am attempting to sort it out.
Absolutely none if the following is carved in stone, so if anyone has had results that don't match this, please let me know as having that sort of information is the only way this will ever get unraveled.

The colors:
Brown. This is the wild type color and the one you will usually end up with if you cross different fancy colors. Brown breeds true unless both parents carry the same recessive gene, if they do, then anything can crop up. There is a wide variety in the exact shade of brown. Some are a charcoal brown with light spots, some more blotchy with light and dark area (and I'm not referring to stress coloration) and some a more uniform chocolate brown. There are olive browns, large spots, small spots, very faint or no spots. Probably at least some of these different browns are genetically separate, but nobody to my knowledge has even begun to track that, because no matter what kind of brown it is, if you cross them you still get some sort of brown.

Albino. This is a yellowish to pinkish fish with red eyes. There are at least 2 genetically separate types of albino and perhaps more. If you cross albinos that are not of the same type you will get brown. According to Ingo Seidel one type of albino is a solid yellow with no markings and the other a yellow and white fish showing a pattern of white spots. In albinos with visible spots, the spots can be on a yellow base color or a whitish base color. Crossing of these two types also produces brown. I am not sure if this means there are 3 genetically separate types of albino or if if the yellow color with or without spots is one type, and the whitish base color another. Albinos of any type are recessive to brown. Albino does not eliminate color and pattern genes. An albino merely lacks the ability to produce melanin to express those color and pattern genes. Think of it as hiding the color and pattern rather than not having any.

Dark eyed yellow: This is the L144. There was a separate species known by that L# it was a light grayish yellow (olive yellow?) that is today very rare. The common L144 is yellow-orange color morph of the common aquarium strain BN. This is NOT an albino. It is leucistic, meaning little to no melanin in the body, but pigmented eyes. This is recessive to brown. It is totally separate from the albino genes and dark eyed yellow X albino will give you browns, (unless both parents carry recessives that match up.) Some have said the browns from the dark eyed yellow X albino are a bit lighter and seem to have more yellow color in their spots than the normal browns, others have not reported any significant difference in the shade of brown which may be because brown is so variable anyway. The dark eyed yellow breeds true, though some fry occur that have a small brown patch.

Calico (AKA marble or black/red) These are very pretty reddish colored fry that develop brown/black color as they mature. They have light and dark areas similar to the blotchy type browns hence the term calico. They are much more distinctly red and black than a blotchy brown so it's fairly easy to differentiate the two. I haven't owned any for first hand observation but in photos it appears that the black pigment is peppered over the red, it seems to be visually granular and separated from the red pigment rather than blended together as in normal browns. It is recessive to brown and seems to breed true. It is distinct and separate from albino and dark eyed yellow and when bred to those colors will produce brown (unless as always both parents carry matching recessives)

Super Red: These are new and I've only seen them in photos. They are an orange red and do not go black/brown with age, they stay an intense red. Most of the time I have heard that they are derived from the calico, but have also heard that they appeared in a batch of fry from two common browns. I hear that they generally breed true, but have seen reports of a few browns appearing in an occasional batch. IF they were derived from calico by selection for the reddest individuals then calico X super red should produce calico, and when bred to other colors should give the same as a calico cross because super red would just be a variant of calico; it could also explain the occasional dark individual (if dark is like a dark calico, if normal brown then it wouldn't) as this would not be simple dominant/recessive but quantitative genetics. If it was derived from either calico or brown as a sport, then who knows. I would imagine it's recessive, but time will tell.

Chocolate:
I have seen this term applied to light unmarked browns and to what appears to be dark calico so the genetics would depend upon what the fish really is.

Neon green:
I have seen one advertisement for these. The fish were olive yellow of various shades with dark eyes. Not sure if they were real L144, odd colored dark eyed yellows

All the colors of the common aquarium strain BN have been bred together a lot so fish of any color commonly carry recessives for another, especially one of the albino genes.

Fins:
There are long fin and normal short fins. The long fin genetics seem a bit confusing, some report their fish produce either long or short fins but never in between, others do report a range of fin length. Probably there are at least two genetically distinct types and unless those types can be differentiated the genetics will remain confusing.

These are my observations to date, I will update as new information surfaces.

Regards,
Amber














































or something else entirely.
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Kurosaki J
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PostSubject: Re: Common BN genetics   Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:38 pm

Interesting read Amber- Thanx.
cheers J


Last edited by Kurosaki J on Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Amber
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PostSubject: sentence fragment   Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:37 am

that sentence fragment waaaaaay at the bottom of the page should be the last bit in the color neon green.
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Tadj
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PostSubject: Re: Common BN genetics   Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:42 am

Hi amber in Australia commons albinos marbles longfin or short are the same fish,there all hybrids l144 are a different species like peps ,the chocs neons would most likely be new hybrids from the different species BN but i could be wrong iam no expert cheers
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Amber
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PostSubject: L144   Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:27 am

The original L144 was a separate species from the common BN, but most of the L144 now are just a color morph of the common BN.
If you have an L144 and you live anywhere but Europe then what you have is almost certainly a common BN color morph and even in Europe the original L144 is rare and what is commonly available is the common BN color morph.
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Curby
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PostSubject: Re: Common BN genetics   Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:04 am

I must have missed this thread amber....
either way a superb read and exactly what Bristlenose World needs...

Keep up the good research and good work.... Very Happy

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Amber
Juvenile Bristlenose
Juvenile Bristlenose


Number of posts: 118
Location: Boise, Idaho, USA
Thank You Points: 12
Registration date: 2009-05-10

PostSubject: update   Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:19 am

Nothing earth shattering, but re the neon green or green BN, did see a post by someone who owns some, his take was that they were just some variant color morph of the common BN. They aren't truly green, my description was olive yellow and this owner described them as mustard green, so pretty much yellowish with a green tint. Haven't seen any where that they were wild caught or imported or anything special other than being greenish which is why the working assumption that they are a variant of the common BN.

Re the long fin gene, long fins are a dominant trait in danios so the current thinking is that it is probably a dominant trait in the BN also. That would explain why some long fins breed true yet some throw short fin too. This applies to fully long finned fish. There seems to be more than one type of long fin in the BN, one fully long and the other basically just an elongation of the tail. This 2nd one is probably a genetically separate trait, and since it doesn't produce fully long fins I don't think most people would want to select for it.
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